From owner-pgsql-hackers@hub.org Mon May 11 11:31:09 1998
Received: from renoir.op.net (root@renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4])
	by candle.pha.pa.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03006
	for <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; Mon, 11 May 1998 11:31:07 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.9 $) with ESMTP id LAA01663 for <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; Mon, 11 May 1998 11:24:42 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id LAA21841; Mon, 11 May 1998 11:15:25 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by hub.org (TLB v0.10a (1.23 tibbs 1997/01/09 00:29:32)); Mon, 11 May 1998 11:15:12 +0000 (EDT)
Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) id LAA21683 for pgsql-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 11:15:09 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (sss.pgh.pa.us [206.210.65.6]) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with ESMTP id LAA21451 for <hackers@postgreSQL.org>; Mon, 11 May 1998 11:15:03 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24915;
	Mon, 11 May 1998 11:14:43 -0400 (EDT)
To: Brett McCormick <brett@work.chicken.org>
cc: hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Re: [PATCHES] Try again: S_LOCK reduced contentionh] 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 11 May 1998 07:57:23 -0700 (PDT) 
             <13655.4384.345723.466046@abraxas.scene.com> 
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:14:43 -0400
Message-ID: <24913.894899683@sss.pgh.pa.us>
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Sender: owner-pgsql-hackers@hub.org
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Brett McCormick <brett@work.chicken.org> writes:
> same way that the current network socket is passed -- through an execv
> argument.  hopefully, however, the non-execv()ing fork will be in 6.4.

Um, you missed the point, Brett.  David was hoping to transfer a client
connection from the postmaster to an *already existing* backend process.
Fork, with or without exec, solves the problem for a backend that's
started after the postmaster has accepted the client socket.

This does lead to a different line of thought, however.  Pre-started
backends would have access to the "master" connection socket on which
the postmaster listens for client connections, right?  Suppose that we
fire the postmaster as postmaster, and demote it to being simply a
manufacturer of new backend processes as old ones get used up.  Have
one of the idle backend processes be the one doing the accept() on the
master socket.  Once it has a client connection, it performs the
authentication handshake and then starts serving the client (or just
quits if authentication fails).  Meanwhile the next idle backend process
has executed accept() on the master socket and is waiting for the next
client; and shortly the postmaster/factory/whateverwecallitnow notices
that it needs to start another backend to add to the idle-backend pool.

This'd probably need some interlocking among the backends.  I have no
idea whether it'd be safe to have all the idle backends trying to
do accept() on the master socket simultaneously, but it sounds risky.
Better to use a mutex so that only one gets to do it while the others
sleep.

			regards, tom lane


From owner-pgsql-hackers@hub.org Mon May 11 11:35:55 1998
Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200])
	by candle.pha.pa.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03043
	for <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>; Mon, 11 May 1998 11:35:53 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id LAA23494; Mon, 11 May 1998 11:27:10 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by hub.org (TLB v0.10a (1.23 tibbs 1997/01/09 00:29:32)); Mon, 11 May 1998 11:27:02 +0000 (EDT)
Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) id LAA23473 for pgsql-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 11:27:01 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (sss.pgh.pa.us [206.210.65.6]) by hub.org (8.8.8/8.7.5) with ESMTP id LAA23462 for <hackers@postgreSQL.org>; Mon, 11 May 1998 11:26:56 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25006;
	Mon, 11 May 1998 11:26:44 -0400 (EDT)
To: Brett McCormick <brett@work.chicken.org>
cc: hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Re: [PATCHES] Try again: S_LOCK reduced contentionh] 
In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 11 May 1998 07:57:23 -0700 (PDT) 
             <13655.4384.345723.466046@abraxas.scene.com> 
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:26:44 -0400
Message-ID: <25004.894900404@sss.pgh.pa.us>
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Sender: owner-pgsql-hackers@hub.org
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Meanwhile, *I* missed the point about Brett's second comment :-(

Brett McCormick <brett@work.chicken.org> writes:
> There will have to be some sort of arg parsing in any case,
> considering that you can pass configurable arguments to the backend..

If we do the sort of change David and I were just discussing, then the
pre-spawned backend would become responsible for parsing and dealing
with the PGOPTIONS portion of the client's connection request message.
That's just part of shifting the authentication handshake code from
postmaster to backend, so it shouldn't be too hard.

BUT: the whole point is to be able to initialize the backend before it
is connected to a client.  How much of the expensive backend startup
work depends on having the client connection options available?
Any work that needs to know the options will have to wait until after
the client connects.  If that means most of the startup work can't
happen in advance anyway, then we're out of luck; a pre-started backend
won't save enough time to be worth the effort.  (Unless we are willing
to eliminate or redefine the troublesome options...)

			regards, tom lane


